Ask the Chair a Question
From Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences
Use this page to ask the ATOC department chair, Brian Toon, a question. He'll do his best to write his answer below your question. If you'd like your question to be anonymous, you can (1) create a non-identifying wiki account, (2) email your question to Laurie and ask her to forward it on anonymously to Brian, or (3) pass your question on to student concerns committee.
- Brian, I'm a new graduate student and I'm concerned about finding an advisor. Can you offer any advice? When should I start looking for an advisor?
Aug. 28, 2006-Brian Toon
Finding an Advisor is the most important step in graduate school. Ultimately the Advisor will provide you with ideas to work on, tools to do the work, financial support, and an introduction to the science community. Your Advisor will also be the principal person on your committee, though it is the committee that decides when you will graduate. Except for students seeking a "non-thesis" Masters degree, everyone will need an Advisor.
There is no need to panic over finding an advisor. It is an important decision, so take your time. Everyone will find an advisor in the next year. Spend the fall looking around. If you haven't made a connection by the late spring, ask for help.
One difficulty in finding an advisor is knowing what you want to do. You need to ask yourself a series of questions. Do you want to be an experimentalist, or a theorist? Do you want to do field work or lab work, or work with a computer? Do you want to study chemistry, oceanography, clouds or something else specific. If you have a pretty good idea of what you are interested in, then you can quickly narrow the field. Ask the ATOC faculty member that is closest to your interests for a list of people in that area. Even if the ATOC faculty member isn't looking for students, they will know who else to approach. Don't just e-mail random people looking for a position. Taking a student is a big investment for the faculty member; it will likely cost them $250,000 to train you. They are looking for someone who is not only talented, but also enthusiastic about their work. Energy and enthusiasm count for a lot in getting a project finished. Make an appointment and go visit the faculty in person. If they seem interested, talk to their students. Go to a few group meetings (several of the 6020 classes are group meetings).
Often potential advisors don't have cash sitting around, so they can't just make an on -the -spot offer to support you. However, most first year students have a year of potential TA support. If you really like a group, volunteer to do some work while you are on the TA. That will give the Advisor time to find some support. You can also apply for fellowships, so that you control your support. NSF lets you apply in the fall, NASA in the spring. EPA and DOE also have fellowships. Ask Laurie for the application details.
If you don't know what you want to do, then instead of looking for an Advisor, spend some time finding something interesting. Go to seminars at ATOC, LASP, INSTAAR, CIRES, NOAA and NCAR. They all have email notifications of their seminars; see the wiki page. Talk to other graduate students who have advisors and see if they like what they are doing. Some people choose an Advisor they like, instead of an area they are interested in. Attend some group meetings (6020 classes) and see what the groups do. Read some recent literature, such as Science or Nature articles and find an interesting area. Or volunteer to work on something to see if you are interested.
The most important points are: take your time, it’s an important decision; if you have a problem, ask for help; you will find an advisor, everyone does.
End
- What's the procedure for Comps I this year?
Sept. 18, 2006 -Brian Toon
Comps 1 has several goals. The primary goal is to encourage students to organize their classroom knowledge. Often the rush of new information during the class itself tends to be overwhelming. When seen in the context of other classes and from a distance, things often make more sense, and can be fit into a larger framework. By studying for the Comps students are encouraged to organize their overall knowledge of atmospheric and oceanic science in this larger framework. The second goal of COMPS 1 is to detect areas in which a student might be weak and need to do a little extra work.
Comps 1 is designed to help students. If you have difficulty taking exams or need special consideration you should make that known to the committee in advance. The vast majority of students easily pass Comps 1 and look back on it as an important milestone. A few discover that they are weak in an area and need to do a little more work. A few students see it as a sign that they should change their career plans.
Comps 1 questions are usually prepared by faculty who have most recently taught the course. We do not identify the faculty who write the question, because there can be last minute changes, and because the person who writes the question should not matter if the question is central to the area. The questions are sent to the Exam committee, and advanced students practice the questions. The goal is to identify ambiguous or poorly worded questions, as well as questions that might be too difficult to complete in the allowed time. Often questions are sent back to the faculty member who wrote them for clarification, or perhaps to make them shorter.
Students names are excluded during the exam, and instead everyone is identified by a letter. Copies of each question, which do not identify the student except by letter, are sent to two faculty members for grading against an answer sheet that was prepared when the question was written. Occasionally the grades given by the two faculty members will differ significantly. In that case they meet to determine and resolve the reasons for the differing grades.
Once all the questions are graded they are compiled into a list of grades. A faculty meeting is held (which includes student representatives) and the faculty consider the performance on the exam. Occasionally a question is identified that all students had trouble answering. Usually each question produces a spread of grades, and a mean that is similar to the other questions. Generally a significant fraction of the students taking the exam do very well, and these are judged to have passed. Rarely a student will have done so poorly that a fail is recommended. Often several students are in a gray area. The faculty then determine whether the students in the gray area simply did poorly on a single question, or whether they did poorly on many of them. At this point the student representatives are asked to leave, and the names of the students having various grades are revealed. The faculty attempt to determine why the students may have gotten grades that are in the gray area. Possibly a weakness will be identified that the student needs to remedy, which may suggest that the student should be asked to take the test a second time. Often the instructor in the relevant class will determine that the student did know the material and simply misunderstood the question on Comps 1. In that case the student may pass. The graded exams are not returned to the students.
There can be several outcomes of Comps 1. The vast majority of students pass it on their first try. Some students may fail at the PhD level, but pass at a Master’s level, or they may also fail at the Master’s level. Those students who fail Comps 1 on the first try are usually allowed to retake the exam the next year. Students who fail the exam should discuss it with their advisor to make a decision about how to proceed. Generally the student simply needs to do a little extra work in one area they might not have mastered fully. Quite a few students who have received the PhD did fail Comps 1 the first time. However, some students who fail Comps 1 may be better served to change career directions.
There are several things you can do to prepare for Comps 1. Many students join study groups. Previous exams are available from the graduate secretary. You can practice taking these. As described in the instructions below from the 2006 exam you can bring notes. We feel that preparing these notes is an important learning experience. So make your own notes, don’t bring someone else’s notes. Further information about the Comps can be found at http://atoc.colorado.edu/academics2/phdcomps.php.
Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences Ph.D. Comprehensive Examination - Part I January 13, 2006 - Duane Physics Building - Room E126
Please read and follow all instructions carefully:
You may work on the exam between 9:00 AM–12:00 Noon and 1:00 PM–4:00 PM. There will be an hour break for lunch between 12:00 Noon and 1:00 PM. Lunch will be served in PAOS Stadium Conference Room and all students are expected to attend. Please do not discuss the exam with anyone other than the exam proctors during the exam and the lunch break.
Calculators and one single-sided page (8.5”x11” or smaller with a 1” margin) of notes for each of the 6 areas referenced below (6 pages total, no more than 1 page for each area) are allowed. Each page may contain text, graphs, and/or equations deemed relevant to the main ideas and techniques presented in the courses. Font size should be equivalent to 10 point or larger, or, if the notes are hand written they should be easily readable without magnification. The sheets will be checked at the exam. If you want to run them by the exam chair before time, contact J. Hart by email: hart@tack.colorado.edu. Books, and lap-top type computers are not permitted.
Answer five (5) of the six (6) questions. If you cannot fully answer five (5) questions, at least attempt to do so, even if you have to answer some only partially. Do not submit answers to more than five (5) questions. If you attempt to answer more than five (5) questions, only submit the best five (5) answers.
Partial credit is given. Write down the steps you follow in a clear and logical order so that you can be given credit for what you know and for your approach to the problem, even if you may not have time to do the whole problem.
Your exam packet includes an identifying letter that has been assigned for your use. Please write your identifying letter on each page that you turn in. Do not write your name on your exam. The following nomenclature is suggested as a means of organizing your exam materials:
A 2-1, A 2-2, A 2-3, etc., where this describes pages 1, 2, 3 of candidate A’s answer to problem 2.
The problem numbers and corresponding subject areas are as follows:
1. Atmospheric Physics and Dynamics (5720/5050) 2. Atmospheric Dynamics (5060) 3. Atmospheric Chemistry (5151) 4. Remote Sensing (5235) 5. Clouds and Aerosols (5600) 6. Physical Oceanography (7500/5051)
When you submit your answers to the proctor, please paperclip your answer pages to the corresponding problem sheet(s) and insert them into the folder supplied for that particular problem. As you submit your answers, on your exam cover sheet, circle the number next to the problem(s) you’ve answered. When you are finished with the exam, write your identifying letter on the cover sheet and place it in the appropriate folder.
Do not write on the back of the pages. In order to speed the grading process, we like to facilitate copying and distribution to the graders. Each problem will be graded independently by two graders. The exam will be discussed by the faculty in January. Notifications will be made after this meeting.
- I'm trying to decide between applying to the ATOC Master's or PhD program. Is one program easier to get into than the other? Does one provide more guaranteed-funding?
Oct. 12, 2006 Brian Toon
ATOC offers both a Masters and a PhD. The Masters degree can be a useful stepping-stone toward a PhD, but it is not required to obtain a PhD. The Masters degree may also be useful to someone who is already employed, perhaps in a government lab such as NCAR or NOAA, and who wishes to advance their career. While in some academic areas, such as Engineering, the Masters is the dominant terminal degree, in Atmospheric and Oceanic Science the PhD is the usual terminal degree.
ATOC does admit students seeking a Masters degree. In particular we have admitted many students who are already employed at NCAR or NOAA. Unfortunately, ATOC is usually not able to provide either a Teaching Assistantship, or a Research Assistant position for those who seek a terminal Masters. We generally reserve financial support for students who seek a PhD. Many students who apply to ATOC state on their application that they are seeking a Masters degree. We generally contact such students to determine if they really seek the Masters as a terminal degree, or if they in fact they plan to go on to a PhD and believe that a Masters is required to proceed to a PhD. A Masters is not required to receive a PhD. We provide financial aid to students who are seeking a PhD. Hence if you actually seek a terminal Masters write that on your application. However, if you hope to obtain a PhD, it is better to note that on your application. You are more likely to be accepted as a PhD student and more likely to receive financial assistance.
- What is the purpose of Comps -2 and why do some people take it at a different time than others?
Feb. 12, 2007-Brian Toon
Graduate School is an individual experience, and people progress at very different rates. ATOC tries to treat each individual according to their needs. For instance, people enter with different skills. Events occur in people's lives that can delay their progress. Research projects can be disrupted unexpectedly, such as when a satellite dies, or a project is cancelled. There is little room for variation in Comps 1, because it is course based. However, even Comps-1 has some variation. For instance, we have had people with previous atmospheric or oceanic science experience take Comps-1 (and pass) in January of their first year. We have even had students with a Master's degree be excused from Comps-1, but that is rare. Someone who is working full time and taking classes at a slow rate might take Comps 1 on a delayed schedule, with permission from the department chair. Comps-2 is not based on classes, but rather on research. Research is unpredictable. For example, students in a given entering class might graduate from 3 to 8 years after entry. While some of this variation is due to previous preparation allowing some courses to be transferred in, a lot of it has to do with the thesis research project. Comps 2 is also subject to unexpected delays. The majority of students manage to take the exam on schedule. It is to the student’s advantage to complete the exam on time, since it may otherwise delay graduation by diverting the student’s attention from their thesis. Students also cannot proceed to candicacy without passing Comps 2 so they are paid less for their RA. However, every year a significant number of students end up delaying the exam, usually by less than 6 months. Such delays can be approved by the Department Chair. Occasionally some unusual set of circumstances results in an even longer delay. Such circumstances need to be considered by several faculty to determine if the delay is related to an inability to perform research or to external events beyond the student's control. The faculty may conclude that forcing a certain date to be met is not a good use of the student’s time, and the Comps should be scheduled at a point that is in the student's best interest.
The point of Comps-1 is to determine if students have mastered the fundamentals. Each year a small number of students will not pass Comps-1. If they are truly unable to master the fundamentals after the second attempt at Comps-1(and an assessment by the faculty that the student's skills are poor, rather than the student having some difficulty taking exams) they will be asked to leave. Comps -2 is designed to start students on a research career, and to check that they have mastered the skills needed in the area of their research (as opposed to the fundamentals, which are covered in Comps-1). It is rare to fail Comps-2. An unsatisfactory exam would usually result in the student being asked to take another class, perform a literature survey, or do additional work. The goal of Comps-2 is not to eliminate poor students, but to teach students how to do research, and confirm they are learning the process. Comps-2 consists of orally presenting the results of a research project, which is described in greater detail in a written report. The oral presentation is followed by questions from the exam committee (members selected by the student). The questions are meant to probe whether the student is familiar with the literature in the area, and whether they understand the basic techniques and science related to the problem. Generally it is desirable that the research be of a quality that could be published, or lead to something later that could be published. Indeed at this point some students are able to submit their first paper to a journal. Occasionally some students have trouble with Comps-2. A common problem for students working with faculty advisors who are not part of ATOC is that they are not given a well defined problem by their advisor that is uniquely their own, as opposed to a group effort. Students have to demand a problem from their advisors that is well defined, and depends mainly on their own work. If a student is uncertain about the problem, they should form their exam committee early and have the committee assess the problem. Another common issue is that some projects take longer than expected, resulting in a delay in taking the exam. Rarely a student’s project is destroyed by events such as a satellite malfunction. This can result in a very substantial delay. It is clearly not in the student's interest to spend time working on a dead end project just to take the Comps exam. In this case a new question related to the thesis (so that the thesis is not delayed) may be posed, and the Comps delayed until that project is developed. Such a decision would need to be approved by the ATOC Chair, in consultation with other faculty.
